Last week, I ranted on Twitter about the sexualization of women’s breasts and how that relates to breastfeeding. I want to expand on that, because I think this is an important part of the discussion about women’s bodies and objectification.
American culture has an obsession with breasts, in particular breasts as having explicitly sexual function. It’s extreme enough that the attitude bleeds into our view of infant feeding and what is or isn’t appropriate. The kinds of comments I’ve heard:
- It’s gross the way your nipples get all pulled out of shape when you feed the baby.
- I guess you can breastfeed past a year, but much beyond that and your kid shouldn’t be thinking about breasts anymore; that’s disgusting.
- I wouldn’t feed a girl baby, only a boy, because having a girl suck on you is homosexual.
- If you need to do that, go in the bathroom. No one wants to see you whip it out in public.
Some things I learned in grad school when doing my research on the topic:
- The number one reason adolescent moms don’t breastfeed is body image concerns/sexuality.
- Women in some parts of the world cover head to toe, but their breasts are exposed while breastfeeding, even in public markets.
- Breast implants can, but don’t always, affect ability to breastfeed.
- Breast reduction nearly always affects breastfeeding.
The thing all of those have in common is that they are, in some way, associated with sexuality.* This idea that breasts are for pleasure and not for functionality contributes to the justification of ogling women’s bodies and then excusing it by saying she wasn’t properly covered. After many of us objected to the framing of the arguments in both the chocolate cake post and the glittertits post, the response was nearly instant: “But they were exposed! Of course they were going to have people stare!”
The problem with that is that there’s no line. When does staring become acceptable? When a woman has her breast out and there’s a flash of nipple as the baby latches on? When she has large breasts, even though they’re completely covered with nary a cleavage line showing? When she’s got a low-cut blouse and glitter? When a man is confused about whether or not she ought to have her top button undone in church? If we start saying that any of those are okay reasons to gawp, we give permission for all of them. If the justification is that the breasts have something about them that’s “distracting,” then any kind of breast-related distraction becomes a reason to leer.
I’m not suggesting a slippery slope, actually–I’m laying out a poor argument. Saying, “But her breasts were right there in my face, covered in glitter. How could I not look?” is pretty nebulous. It could be used in just about every situation:
- “But she was feeding her baby right there! How could I not look?”
- “But her breasts are just so huge! How could I not look?”
- “But she had that button undone and I thought it should be fixed! How could I not look?”
That’s not one thing leading to worse things; it’s finding ways to justify what men were already doing by blaming women for living their lives.
Let me share two stories with you about my experiences with breastfeeding. When my son was a newborn, we struggled to adapt to the change. I had a hard time breastfeeding, including poor latch (which was probably due to the epidural I had), infant reflux, and stubborn yeast infections. We made it, though, and I’m glad we did. Because of all the challenges, our church attendance was sporadic for a while. I was nervous about breastfeeding anywhere but home, since it was still difficult to get my son to latch. The first time I fed him at church, I went to the bride’s ready room in the outer part of the ladies room. Before anyone gets all upset, it’s a gorgeous space with comfy chairs, and it’s quiet in there–I wasn’t sitting on the toilet to nurse. It’s not a bad place to feed a baby, but the reality is that I was hiding in case anyone was offended.
A woman came in and asked why I was sneaking away to the bathroom. I made noises about how the pew wasn’t a comfortable place to feed my son, and she asked why I didn’t go in the library where I could sit on a couch and listen to the service through the speakers. The next week, I did just that. I was mortified, though, when a group of men in their 40s and 50s decided to also sit in there. You know what? None of them were fussed at all about the breastfeeding mom on the couch. They smiled, said hello, made eye contact, cooed over the baby, and sat down. Not one of them stared at me. Nor did they avoid me; they just carried on as usual. I think one of them may have commented about how it brought back nice memories of his wife feeding their own newborn some thirty years prior, but that’s it.
Fast forward to my second story. At the church we attended when our daughter was a baby, it seemed like no big deal. The auditorium was dark, so I just fed her and let her doze off during the service. Kept her quiet, she got her morning nap, and I got to enjoy church. Win-win. Once or twice, I had to take her out because she was fussy, so I would sit on the chairs in the foyer and watch the service on the screen. I thought it wasn’t too bad, but the chairs weren’t comfortable; the pastor even joked about that once.
But there was a problem: the nursery. I never fed her in the nursery because I was told I was required to sit behind a screen where we couldn’t even see the service on the closed-circuit television. We were supposed to hide in the nursery, and then hide within it. Not only that, one of the pastors gave a sermon in which he felt free to tell women how long they should breastfeed. He said that beyond a year was inappropriate. I was shocked and upset; I had already done extended breastfeeding with my first, at his doctor’s urging, in part because of his stomach issues. I was planning on the same with my second. It had nothing to do with breasts and everything to do with their health.
In that church, I learned that breasts were something to be covered and ashamed of. There was a constant thrum of “if she dresses like that, it’s no wonder men treat her like an object.” There was hiding to feed babies and being told how long we should do it. There were men fixating on the buttons of my shirt. And yes, there were smokin’ hot wives (even though the wording was different). There was blame and there was shame when it came to women’s bodies and an unspoken rule that our bodies belonged to our men, in private, for them to enjoy.
As you can see from my first story, it is entirely possible for men–a whole group of them, even–to sit in the presence of a woman with her breasts at least partially exposed and not ogle her. It’s possible to make eye contact instead of staring, to ooh and aah over babies instead of boobies, and to have a conversation that isn’t strained because of the presence of breasts. I guarantee that if men can do it when nipple exposure is a certainty, they can do it when wardrobe malfunction is only a possibility. There’s no reason for any church to police women’s bodies–not ever. Men are capable of reining in their own behavior, and women are not responsible for causing or curing it.
Women, don’t let cultural obsession stop you from nurturing your baby with your body or wearing that bikini or putting glitter anywhere you want to put it. Men, you are not animals. A lot of you behave decently, and while I’m not going to give you a prize for it, you should know that it’s appreciated. And for those of you who have issues with breasts and what women do with them? Find a hobby. You’ve obviously got too much time on your hands.
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*Breast reduction isn’t always associated with sexuality; sometimes it’s health-related. However, most women who have never given birth but plan to in the future are not told that the reduction can cause problems with breastfeeding because of the removal of some of the milk-producing tissue. When a woman’s health is not immediately at risk and she intends to have biological children, if she wants to breastfeed it’s better to hold off on the surgery until afterward. She should at least be informed of the risk.
To bring this out a big more. In Christianity, a lot of the confines placed on women are actually related to the inability of men to control their desires. If scriptures are read carefully, particularly Leviticus and the likes, there is the pattern if “you, the woman, are doing this to help the man control himself because you, the woman, are too distracting”. It’s a historical issue that has been in play for a long time. Historically it seems to ebb and flow, but we do come back to it a lot and try to blame women while victimizing men because they couldn’t control then selfs or their actions. It’s a poor excuse, you are right in that, it’s barely an excuse at all. Breast feeding is natural and a very natural way if life. I bet Eve breasted her babies oh and in front if god too!!
Ok now that I went off my own rant. It is something that needs to change in our society. And to change it, we first have to stand up to the social norm and confine.
Absolutely. I’ve also seen “don’t cause your brother to stumble” used in the same way. That’s how it was taught to me, anyway, though not necessarily about sex/sexy clothes. People in my first church wouldn’t drink in public, for example, so as not to “tempt” underage people and alcoholics.
I love this, Amy. Thanks.
And to add my own myth to the collection…an old friend once told me that you could breastfeed girls as long as needed, but should stop breastfeeding boys before two years (maybe even a year) because otherwise they’d have sexual memories of their mother. I wish I were kidding.
The Oedipus complex? Freud? I’m sure Freud would have comments on that. I’ve heard that one before actually, about boys having sexual images of their mother–obviously no concern for LGBT children at all, nope, not at all. =P
Ha! Nope, no worries there. Well, except for all those girls who are going to turn into lesbians from breastfeeding.
Yeah, I’ve heard that one, too. No one seems to think that maybe what kids actually will think about breasts (if they’re old enough when they stop nursing) is that they’re functional. I once met a woman whose husband’s mom nursed him until he was about 4, and he *did* have memories of breastfeeding. But they were all mostly about feeling loved and comforted. The “sexual memories of mom” thing is very Freudian.
Wow. My son is doomed to all kinds of problems then, because, while I only breastfed him for 6 weeks (standard disclaimer: I have lots of issues that made this a better choice for me at the time.), he consistently walks in on me naked in my bedroom, closet, and shower and he’s almost 3 now.
Oh, definitely. I’m sure my children are scarred for life after all the times they saw me naked when they were younger.
(And I wish that disclaimers like yours weren’t necessary. I’d like to see women support each other no matter how we feed our babies. As someone who wholeheartedly supports breastfeeding, I wish we could just cheer for each mama instead of brow-beating each other.)
I wish the disclaimer wasn’t necessary either. And often, in real life, it isn’t. But inevitably, on the internet, someone often shows up to talk about how sad and terrible it is or demand reasons I don’t feel comfortable discussing with strangers. And I know that even when people restrain themselves, they often judge privately (and I know I shouldn’t care about that, but it totally drives me crazy!) that I’m selfish or just didn’t try hard enough. And truthfully, I sometimes judge myself along those lines too, even though I know better! I think maybe that’s what’s behind these “mommy wars” really, that it’s all so hard, and so personal, and when someone says our way just didn’t work for them, or was a bad choice, or whatever, it just feels like the last straw, because, what the hell, other mom? That’s the only way it worked for me, and believe me, I am trying here! It’s been a huge spiritual discipline for me to learn to reach for grace instead of judgement, blame, or offense in areas where I’m already vulnerable and exhausted. And learning to discern between situations where the other party is also exhausted and vulnerable, so I should just give her a freaking break and those where the judgement is harmful and should be stood up to. Anyway…
Thank you for sharing your heart here. I’m convinced that the more we listen to each other’s stories, the less judgmental we’ll be when it comes to making parenting choices. I’m a huge advocate for helping overcome barriers to breastfeeding, but I know that it really isn’t for everyone. Even though I did extended nursing, I actually used formula with my son for a brief time while we figured out how to make it work. I think a happy mom/baby pair is more important than doing something merely out of the conviction that it’s the “right” way.
While I generally agree with this post I feel it lacks the nuance of considering the social context in which things happen. None of us can escape cultural conditioning so if men are culturally conditioned to think of breasts as sexual, especially in certain overtly sexual contexts (such as the bar from the glitter post or a strip club if you need a more blatant example) they are going to have a very hard time getting past this conditioning.
Frankly I am not sure it would be a good thing to completely desexualize the human body. (Which granted isn’t what you are asking for but I am not sure where you draw the line about what is sexual and what is not.) I just think we need to get over our hang ups about having normal sexual desires and reactions.
I don’t want to completely desexualize breasts, but breasts being sexual is a cultural construct–they’re not inherently sexual, and in many cultures they’re not seen that way (or at least their exposure isn’t).
I disagree that bars are inherently sexual atmospheres, either. Lots and lots of people go to bars for completely nonsexual reasons, and even those who want to meet someone don’t necessarily want to be leered at. The last time I was in one, I was there to see a band that was playing. I’m also uncomfortable with the line of thinking that says women should be aware that if they go in a bar with glittery breasts they should expect to be treated a certain way. I’m pretty sure decent guys can act decently even in bars. Some years ago, I was out with some friends at a bar. I was approached by a man who asked to buy me a drink. He flirted, but he maintained eye contact (despite my attire) and was very polite and kind when I thanked him but said I was married. He left me alone and didn’t stare at me all night. I’m not asking men not to look at all; I’m saying they can help themselves from staring and coping feels and such.
I don’t actually disagree with any of your particular points, but the overall tone “feels” moralistic to me, and coming out of the evangelical sub culture I am leery of arguments about acceptable “sexual” social behavior that “feels” moralistic.
I guess what I am looking for is a “place” or “space” in our society where people who WANT to do that sort of thing and be that sort of person can go to leer and grope etc and know that in that social space this is acceptable normal expected behavior. Everyone who goes to that “space” will know that in that space this is the expected behavior and if they don’t want to participate they should not go there.
I don’t want to participate in this type of space/behavior. I think from a Christian perspective it is not compatible with the way of Jesus. I also don’t want all or most social spaces to be this kind of space, but I am not ok with saying there is no room in our society for this kind of space or the kind of person who wants to go there.
Maybe I’m confused, but it sounds like you’re saying there should be “safe space” for men to leer at and grope women without their permission and that if women enter that space, they should expect that behavior and not complain about it. Is that what you’re saying?
I didn’t communicate this well. It isn’t about the specific example so much as the general principle of making blanket statements about what behavior/actions between consenting adults has no place in a pluralistic society.
So in the above example the women who went to that particular “space” would be going because they WANT to participate in what goes on there.
What I am asking is what “authority” any of us have to make blanket moral pronouncements about behaviors we personally find objectionable. Part of this is once again a reaction to the homophobia etc of conservative Christian culture and a feeling that I don’t want in any way to engage in the kind of judgmental controlling behavior that culture does.
I am still not sure I am communicating this well. My problem is with the process/concept of saying a particular type of behavior has no place in our society, mostly because I am unsure how we go about doing this without becoming like the judgmental evangelical church.
If you could lay out what criteria/process you think we can use to do this without slipping into that kind of judgementalism I would appreciate it.
You don’t have to respond to this if you don’t want to. I am mostly processing my own issues here. 🙂
Totally ok, and I really, really appreciate that you took the time to answer so respectfully. We may not completely agree, but I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that it’s staying positive. Thanks! 🙂
Maybe it is a breech in communication, then. I’m reacting to the common problem in our culture of objectifying women to the point that what’s happening is not consensual. The reason women react so strongly to these things is that this is our constant experience. It’s not a huge number of men doing it, either–but the ones who do are forceful.
My criteria are pretty simple; in fact there’s really only one: Don’t do things unless you have permission, which means a YES rather than the absence of NO. Groping and even ogling fall under the category of “you don’t have permission to do that to me.” I think that we’re allowed to have minimum expectations–which this is–without fearing that we are being judgmental for wanting it to stop. I’m pretty sure I proved the point that men can be respectful in both the bar and church settings, with women both (un)dressed for going out and for feeding a baby. I really don’t think there’s more I can say on this. I suggest you read some of what Sarah Moon or Dianna Anderson have written on this subject.
If my comments come across as trollish or unwelcome I apologize and will not post that kind of thing here again. I don’t mean to be a troll. Please don’t block me. Just tell me if I am.
I’m a little unsure what people will consider trollish right now after being blocked on twitter for a minor argument with someone.
No worries. I’ve only ever blocked one person, and that was for making rape comments directly to me and another woman who was commenting. Even the few trolls I’ve had here haven’t been blocked, actually.
Good article Amy! How much should society be involved with the raising our own children? What is normal as opposed to what is not? Feeding your child should be a personal choice.
This article reminds me of something I was caught off guard on when I attended my first philosophy class @ Oswego. I have not viewed breastfeeding as being sexual at all. The class was run by a openly lesbian women, and she brought this subject up. She then asked those that had breast fed if they found it sexually exciting or stimulating. I was dumbfounded by the question to say the least and thought it was inappropriate.
@rowlek: I have to ask you this: Is this your name or an avatar? I ask because when you comment on someones blog & give a opinion that seems to attack in a “nice way” you should be able to stand behind what you say not hide behind an alias. That is what I find to be trollish more then what you have to say.
As far as letting people go somewhere to get their jollies seems to me to be moralistic comment. Especially since you say you would never go but would tolerate it. We are sexual beings and America really struggles between what is acceptable and what is not. Society screams SEX SEX SEX any way with any one and here let’s see how far we can push the envelope. Individuals just want to be loved by someone and more times then not a nice hug is better then a one nighter.
Actually, I have to disagree that the question was inappropriate. A lot of women actually do experience physical arousal while breastfeeding. It’s a normal biological response, but we’re conditioned to fear it and be repulsed. The act of breastfeeding is not in itself sexual, but human anatomy being what it is, everything is interconnected and various stimulation can have different effects on different people. I never experienced it personally (possibly because I always found breastfeeding slightly painful; I don’t know), but I do know women who have. When doing my graduate research, the fear of experiencing something sexual while breastfeeding was one of the top concerns, along with having it “ruin” a woman’s body. These are concerns that must be addressed if we are to help women who want to breastfeed but are afraid to do so because of what they’ve read/heard.
I do agree that our society is sex-saturated. A lot of that is dependent on treating humans as objects rather than people. We need to be able to say that dehumanization of any kind and acting without permission are never moral or acceptable behaviors or we will continue to see people victimized (both men and women).
Thanks Amy, I guess it just caught me off guard because we do keep this in the closet.
Rowlek is a username I got in college and still use sometimes. I didn’t even notice that was what was showing up as my name here.
The blogging platform chose to use that not me, probably based off my login. I am pretty sure I listed my real name when I filled out the form. Keith Rowley btw. @KeithRowley on twitter. 🙂
Just so you know, I don’t care what name you use. The guy who threatened rape used a “real” name (whether or not it actually was HIS real name).
Thanks Keith when a name stands behind something that is said it makes a big difference. I believe that many use avaitars so they can hide, like wearing a hoodie. Sorry if I offended in any way.
great post and great conversation on the topic … I live in a community with lots of young single people (guys and girls) and I’m pretty sure my open breastfeeding of my 34 month old son and my 17 month old daughter (not at the same time though 😉 has really changed perceptions of full-term breastfeeding. Once people are parents I think they often have their ideas set (and especially if they’ve already parented their kids!) so I try to be really open with our younger friends about my nursing relationship with my kids because they are actually open to learning …
I really appreciate your post. The longer I’m nursing for the less I actually care if someone catches a flash of my nipple while I’m latching a child on … I’m usually very covered (and in australia (where I live) its much more common to see a woman nursing with her breast exposed then it is to see her under a nursing cover)) but there are always those moments when I child takes off without warning or I’m not wearing the perfect clothing for that moment … I’ve never had anyone say anything to me that wasn’t positive or at least a genuine question. I would also be mortified if a pastor said it’s inappropriate to nurse beyond a year … wow. How long did Jesus nurse??
Thanks for writing on this subject! Just found your blog today … looking forward to following along!
You’re right about people having their ideas set once they’re parents. The likelihood of using a different feeding method goes down with subsequent children. The same seems to be true for most parenting decisions.
I reached a point where I didn’t much care what others did or didn’t see, but in certain environments I definitely conformed to the expectations. I eventually figured out that most people really don’t care, and total strangers don’t really have the right to butt in anyway. I think that’s true in any case. I read a story about a mom feeding her baby in the mall, using a bottle, and someone thought it was okay to blow past and tell her she was feeding her baby “crap in a can.” The responses to the story made me uncomfortable, because it was all about how maybe it was actually breast milk or maybe it wasn’t her baby or maybe the baby had some issue and she hadn’t been able to breastfeed. My thought was that it was just wrong to say it, period. I certainly didn’t want anyone saying *anything* judgy about me when I breastfed; why should a bottle-feeding mom expect any less courtesy?
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